Absolute Moral Authority

Because plain old moral authority just wasn’t good enough — a mesablue production

Awesome AMA from the Origional AMA’er

Posted by Wickedpinto on May 28, 2007

Apparently Cindy isn’t done with being an attention whore until she finishes this current attempt at whoring herself out for attention.

“The first conclusion is that I was the darling of the so-called left as long as I limited my protests to George Bush and the Republican Party”

Now you figure it out Cindy?  Ain’t you the bright one!

 have endured a lot of smear and hatred since Casey was killed

Unlike the smears that you have endeavoured to perpetrate against your own son, and others like him?  Poor YOU!  I thought this was about Casey, the noble individual who EFFING DIED! not about a worn out and put away wet old broad who needs her “me time” in front of a national camera.

Also, the preface of each of these quotes is…

I have come to some heartbreaking conclusions this Memorial Day Morning.

What a BRAVE and NOBLE hero you are Cindy, for pointing out that on MEMORIAL EFFING DAY MORNING! what you are thinking about is not Casey, but rather using him as a tool to demonstrate your self pitty!

Good on you GIRL!!!

This is the left, the spend memorial day wondering why THEY aren’t acknowledged, Especially those with AMA.

Via allah, and thanks to DKos, for letting their own members demonstrate exactly their own nature.

Update: well, actually Backdate: since Geoff beat me to it by hours, Geoff has another analysis of this rotten attention whore willing to dance with hugo on her own childs grave.

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100 Responses to “Awesome AMA from the Origional AMA’er”

  1. I didn’t know she was still around.

  2. Of course she is, she has Absolute Moral Authoratay! According to MODO, lets see what modo has in response to this.

  3. Justin said

    Cindy has more courage then you could ever dream of having. She is practicing her right to free speech and her right to question her government and it’s leaders. I think the thing that you right wing neo-con bush puppets fear is the fact that a majority of Americans are listening to people like Cindy. and by the way these are facts pal..not the made up fear mongering you right wing neo con bush puppets normally do. You fear what you cannot control. You fear the truth. You have your panties all bunched up because deep down, when you look past all the George bush ass kissing you always do..you know that she is right. Over 3,000 of our brave men and woman have died in an illegal military act. All the while this nation is no safer today then it was on 09-10-01 and bin laden is still free and still very much a valid threat to this nation and the world. so why don’t take your head out of bush’s ass and do you home work a little better next time.

  4. Cindy has more courage then you could ever dream of having.

    Justin? you really are retarded.

  5. forged rite said

    Blah blah blah neocon blah blah blah truth to power blah blah blah illegal war blah blah blah…..

    Predictable and boring. Either get some new talking points or shut the fuck up.

  6. Justin said

    >

    Are you saying that it is “retarded” to believe in the Constitution? That is what she is doing. She is upholding her right to free speech and to protest her government. If you and your so called moral authority disagree with that basic fact then you completely are against the United States Constitution. The same Constitution that gives you the right to have this very blog and speak your mind. I find it amazing that you call yourself the moral authority. The true sign of real self worth is the fact that a person knows freely that to dictate another humans morals is to make the dictator look foolish.

    This reminds of the actions of this disgraceful President..you know the one that stole the white house. Shrub went around America stating that if you disagree with the war in Iraq then are un-American and support the terrorist. First factual data shows that this is not a war..it is a military action. second I personally do not question the solders..I question their leader. Iraq is a NO WIN situation. shrub lead us into this action based on lies. he lied to the American people, to the world, and to the congress. his direct actions lead to the deaths of thousands…yet he calls himself the moral leader. maybe it is your morals he leaders because they sure as hell are not mine.

    It seems to me that you may need to do some more homework. so to help you get started I will leave you with these quotes:

    Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.
    — Benjamin Franklin

    Whoever would overthrow the liberty of a nation must begin by subduing the freeness of speech.
    — Benjamin Franklin

    All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.

    ~Thomas Jefferson~

    Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves.

    ~Abraham Lincoln~

    To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards of men.

    ~Abraham Lincoln~

    Restriction of free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us. – Justice William O. Douglas

    Without freedom of thought there can be no such thing as wisdom and no such thing as public liberty without freedom of speech. – Benjamin Franklin, 1722

  7. forged rite said

    Wicked was right. You are retarded.

  8. Justin said

    Is that your come back? Are you people kids? Do you lack the ability to have an intelligent conversation? All you can do is name call? …figures typical neo-con’s.

    I see that you also are completely against the United States Constitution. Your name calling and child like actions will not change the facts at hand. The good thing here is that in a little over 601 days the white house will be free of this disgrace of a president…this man that is the worse president in the history of this nation..George W. Bush.

    And in closing it seems that you also need to do some more homework. so to help you get started I will leave you with these quotes:

    Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.
    — Benjamin Franklin

    Whoever would overthrow the liberty of a nation must begin by subduing the freeness of speech.
    — Benjamin Franklin

    All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.

    ~Thomas Jefferson~

    Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves.

    ~Abraham Lincoln~

    To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards of men.

    ~Abraham Lincoln~

    Restriction of free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us. – Justice William O. Douglas

    Without freedom of thought there can be no such thing as wisdom and no such thing as public liberty without freedom of speech. – Benjamin Franklin, 1722

  9. Cindy Sheehan Gives Up on the Democrats

    Apparently the two of us get hate mail from the same group of “peace-loving” lefties:
    I have endured a lot of smear and hatred since Casey was killed and especially since I became the so-called “Face” of the American anti-war mo…

  10. forged rite said

    Is that your come back? Are you people kids? Do you lack the ability to have an intelligent conversation? All you can do is name call? …figures typical neo-con’s

    Seriously justin, you’re boring. Everything you say is just typical re-hashed lefty talking points that anybody who pays even the slightest bit of attention to politics has heard a thousand times before. Nobody’s talking to you because they know exactly what you’re going to say. Here’s some homework for you, go and find something interesting to say. If all you do is repeat the same old neo-con, bush is the worst evah! stuff, people are going to ignore you, and rightly so.

  11. rand said

    Justin, great points on the Constitution and the quotes. Free speech protects everyone – especially those that aren’t speaking for the majority (or at least the silent majority).

    The Iraq “war” is a no-win situation, especially when the reason we went in didn’t exist and we have no known exit strategy.

    I think Cindy has some other issues she has yet to deal with – like the loss of her child – but that’s not the discussion here.

  12. […] Wickedpinto lashes out at Sheehan noting she got the whole reason behind Memorial Day mixed up. […]

  13. leoncaruthers said

    Awesome, Absolute Moral Authority finally has its own trolls. Gentlemen, you have arrived.

  14. Lisa said

    Justin,
    Thomas Jefferson is one of my all time favorite historical figures. Here are some additional quotes from him.

    “The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
    Thomas Jefferson

    “Every citizen should be a soldier. This was the case with the Greeks and Romans, and must be that of every free state.”
    Thomas Jefferson

    “For a people who are free, and who mean to remain so, a well-organized and armed militia is their best security.”
    Thomas Jefferson

    “As our enemies have found we can reason like men, so now let us show them we can fight like men also.”
    Thomas Jefferson

  15. mesablue said

    “Kill the bastards!”
    Tom Jefferson

  16. pattyann said

    Anybody have any quotes from THIS FRIKKEN CENTURY? Like: “You’re either with us or against us in the fight against terror”

    I kinda like that one.

  17. Lisa said

    This is for you Pattyann,

    “Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn’t pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.”
    Ronald Reagan

  18. forged rite said

    Justin, great points on the Constitution and the quotes. Free speech protects everyone

    Apparently not. According to justin, if you criticize saint cindy, you don’t believe in the constitution. Which is just another way of saying if you criticize liberals you’re taking away their free speech. Yet another old worn out liberal talking point.

  19. fishaddict said

    I wonder what the people under sheehan’s buddy chavez think about the freedom of speech right now.

  20. I thought that was manic depressive justin from Aces place.

  21. Justin said

    >

    I find it very sad that the only thing you all know are personal attacks. I guess I should know that by from the person you hold up on a pedestal, George W. Bush. You see this isn’t just about Cindy. It is about all those that have the nerve to question and hold in judgment this disgraceful president. You may call me any grade school name you. You can try and “shame” me all you wish. The bottom line is that, now, a majority of Americans believe tat we no longer belong in Iraq. A majority of Americans now believe that Iraq is a no win situation. A majority of America now believe that Iraq is NOT the so called front on this on terror. These are the facts. George W. Bush has failed as the leader of this nation. he had his chance and he failed. Now if you wish to talk about supporting troops then lets get the hell out of Iraq and focus on the real bad guy, Bin Laden.

    …oh yea on other thing

    Forged you stated:

    “Which is just another way of saying if you criticize liberals you’re taking away their free speech. Yet another old worn out liberal talking point.”

    1. I have never once said I was a liberal. You assumed that my friend.
    2. I am not a Democrat. I am not a Republican. I have been a member of both and they both, in MY opinion, have failed this nation. I am an independent. I vote for the person and not the party. Unlike the neo cons of this nation I, and a shit load of other Americans, can think for ourselves and we do not need parties to tell us how we should or should not think, feel, or believe.
    3. There are a few, and I do mean few, things that shrub has done I agree with. But for the vast majority I think that he has failed this nation. he was given the chance to do his job and he failed. He told us that there was WMD’s and there was none…he told us that Iraq would welcome us with open arms and they did not. he has told us loads of things and he has produced very little.
    4. George W. Bush has shit on great Americans that defended him. Great Americans such as Gen. Powell. btw condie isn’t good enough to carry Colin Powell’s jock strap much less be an effective SOS.

    I could go and prove every point with every thing I list. However I know how it is with neo-cons. Your mentors are poor excuses for Americans such as shrub, such as Jerry Falwell, such as Dr. James Dodson, such as Condie Rice.

    So let me close by saying that in the past not even the joke of a VP did not even want to go into Iraq and here is the proof:

    Why Dick Cheney Opposed Going to Bagdad in 1991 at the Time of the Gulf War (posted 10-16-02)

    Dick Cheney in April 1991, then Defense Secretary, as quoted in the Slate on October 16, 2002:

    If you’re going to go in and try to topple Saddam Hussein,you have to go to Baghdad. Once you’ve got Baghdad, it’s not clear what you do with it. It’s not clear what kind of government you would put in place of the one that’s currently there now. Is it going to be a Shia regime, a Sunni regime or a Kurdish regime? Or one that tilts toward the Baathists, or one that tilts toward the Islamic fundamentalists? How much credibility is that government going to have if it’s set up by the United States military when it’s there? How long does the United States military have to stay to protect the people that sign on for that government, and what happens to it once we leave?

    Information courtesy of: History News Network.

  22. Justin?

    “retarded” isn’t a “personal attack” it’s a description built in the broad sense using only the most convenient adjective.

    You are rehashing the same shit that we’ve all heard goodness knows how many times.

    You are not “smart” you are not informative, you are not original, you are not descriptive, you are a parrot, and it bores the shit out of us.

    I have no problem with honest debate, hell, I have debated myself at times, thats FINE! but to just be a know nothing parot is BORING! and while it isn’t my blog, I’m a part of it, and I’m not interested in this being a common cause.

    If you disagree, FINE!!! but if all you are gonna do is spout talking points, you bore me, and I will ignore you. Sorry justin, no matter how many lefty quotes you can cough up, it won’t make you interesting. You are, and always will be a dork, a loser, and a tard.

  23. Justin said

    “You are, and always will be a dork, a loser, and a tard.”

    and you, my friend, just proved my point. I applied the same logic that you neo cons apply to people that do agree with you. Yet you can not handle that. A debate is where you present and then listen to both sides. Personally I have listened to and considered the debate of people like yourself. The only thing I come away with is that you neo-cons are all about control. When you no longer have control of the situation you lash out and attack. I gave you no reason to do so. I presented my side of the debate and you did not. The only thing you did was attack. LOL…so yea you proved my point. You cannot debate, you cannot stand your own ground. The good thing of all of this is that in about 600 days we will be free of shrub. we can flush his disgrace of a presidency down the royal toilet.

    One other wicked.. you people call me a “left wing liberal.” I vote for and support President Reagan and am in the view that he, President Regan, is one of the best Presidents this nation has ever had. When he passed away we truly lost a really great American.

  24. Justin said

    btw the way wicked ““retarded” isn’t a “personal attack” it’s a description built in the broad sense using only the most convenient adjective.” go out to the streets of NY city and call some gang members retarded and see how the feel about it. 😉

  25. SoChi Fucker, So-Friggen-Chi.

    And justin, using the most convenient assault on you, which I did, I admit, was. . .well, Identical to the same thing you did to me, and others like me.

    Poor you, for being too retarded to notice it.

    For me but not for thee, is your method, and you live with that, and you carry it to the “streets” of NY, or to so chi, or to detroit, or even to east San Diego. ESPECIALLY lets see you cary it to a base town, a base bar, a mil town a mil bar, lets see it?

    I walk without concern, and I speak as I please, how about you? Lets see you CORRECT someones speach in the “streets” of NY or so chi, or detroit, or east san diego, lets see you correct the speach of someone in a base town, or at a base bar, or in a mil town or a mil bar?

    Stand first justin, then others will stand with you. You are just a parrot.

  26. Justin said

    I am standing now and will always stand. Very proud and very true to whom I am.

    Pitty things have to fall the way they do as I am sure that we may be able to learn from each other. For example I am against the Presidents Immigration plan. But while you attack me you could care less about the real points right. If you would just stand clear of your neo con hate speech you would find that.

    I was raised in the military. My Dad died serving this nation and my Mom retired from the Army after 30 years of service. I support and would defend our men and woman of the Military. I can tell you right now that a vast number of them agree that we should not be in Iraq and that we should be hunting down Bin Laden and kicking the ass of any nation that tries to stop us. Of course none of them would speak on the nightly news of this..as you see they do not have a right to free speech while a member of the military.

  27. geoff said

    Clinical diagnosis confirmed – Jason is retarded. His quotes don’t even say what he thinks they do.

    I wouldn’t even let him soil the comments section in my blog.

  28. Justin,

    If you had been willing to “discuss” the situation, I would have had no problem, but you didn’t, you lectured, you were so sure of yourself (even though in my mind, you were completely wrong) that you chose to deride not only myself (thats cool, I’m a goon) but all those who might agree with me, thats why I’m not the only one who called you retarded.

    You were so filled with your own ego, that you were JUST like the person this post is about, and you were not worthy of discussion. Memorial day, for now, is over, so now I will respond, but I’m bored with you.

    There is nothing you say that is original or containing any value. You are just one more fool suckered into the same old repetative words that the fanatical left things means something.

    Does cindy have a 1st amendment right?

    You bet your ass! and I don’t mind, you know who else has a 1st amendment right?

    I do.

    But you insinuated that I was hindering cindy’s rights?

    Really, WICKEDPINTO!?! was denying another persons rights?

    Really?

  29. Justin said

    LMAO you need not think so highly of yourself there Geoff.

  30. geoff? there is no jason in this comments section, only justin.

  31. Justin?

    You don’t know much about geoff do you?

    Of the top 20 “smart” people, as in education and fundamental ability, Geoff is in the top 15 without a doubt, and . . . well, I have a rather large list of “blog acquaintences” and geoff is a fucking genius. I would say that in my real life, I only know 3 people who can compare with him.

    JUSTIN!? you have a rather high opinion of YOURSELF don’t you?

  32. Justin said

    My own ego?? roflmao omg have you read your post there pal?

    You now say that Cindy has a right to free speech. I know that you have said this is not your blog. So did you agree with the point in the post where she was called an” attention whore?”

  33. Also, I thought YOU justin, were above personal attacks? you were interested in a debate?

    Or are you completely full of crap?

  34. Justin said

    LMAO..this coming from the person who would rather try and attack people then have a logical debate based on facts.

  35. geoff said

    geoff? there is no jason in this comments section, only justin.

    True enough. I started thinking of that Jason-Bodhi guy while I was writing. I would let him comment at my site, even though he was a rude and sanctimonious little jerk.

    Justin, though, can’t even properly restate the old arguments, let alone formulate new ones.

    It’s always fun and lively to have commenters at your site, but guys like this aren’t worth it. You’ll be far happier if you encourage them to move on.

  36. Justin said

    wicked my post to him was not a personal attack. if you would bother reading you would know this. 😉

  37. I’m bored geoff, I need to kick things up a notch for a bit. And it’s not my site, it’s mesa’s, I just chip in.

  38. Justin said

    I will move when I dang well wish to…or you the owner of this blog can remove the post. I could care less.

    I see that you claim I cannot properly restate arguments or formulate new ones. I am not repeating anyones argument. I am siding with the facts. The facts of the case show that every thing about this action in Iraq wrong and that we do not belong there.

  39. LMAO..this coming from the person who would rather try and attack people then have a logical debate based on facts.

    You are incapable of debate, read your first comment. You lectured all of us, me particularly about how Cindy has rights that we all know she does, and then you mentioned how we are trying to stifle her, even though we all know all of the idiocy she said, but hey, clearly she’s been stifled?

    Really Justin? at what point did you engage in a discussion that didn’t consist of you calling me/someo of us nazi’s.

    Do you even KNOW! what is in the constitution? or are you an activist educated doofus?

    Thats why I called you a retard. If you actually had a non repetative, non-idiotic argument, I would have been happy to engage with you reasonably, but you weren’t, so, clearly, you ARE retarded.

  40. geoff said

    Yeah, that’s always the problem with self-discipline – boredom always prevails.

  41. Justin? It’s NOT my place, I’m just a contributor.

    And I don’t even think the owner will delete you, because we aren’t cowards.

    You must be used to the lefty blogs.

    Us “righty’s” (thats really kinda funny in my case) don’t mind argument, we just wish you would ARGUE YOUR POINT! rather than turning into an organ grinder monkey crankey out the same old tune.

  42. geoff said

    The facts of the case show that every thing about this action in Iraq wrong and that we do not belong there.

    First symptom of the wandering liberal mind: can’t stay on topic.

    Next we’ll be hearing about Bush lying about WMD.

  43. Geoff, Oh, man, “boredom” has lead me to some BAD BAD THINGS!!!

    Not fun, but new, and definatly bad. 🙂

  44. Once again Justin? Geoff is here, ask him for his bona fides?

    and share yours.

    Who’s the idiot?

  45. Justin doesn’t seem so prolific anymore.

    Sorry to put you into it geoff, but he mentioned you, and I thought it funny.

  46. I know my net acquaintences who are total dorks, that is something I keep track of 🙂

  47. geoff said

    Us “righty’s” (thats really kinda funny in my case) don’t mind argument, we just wish you would ARGUE YOUR POINT! rather than turning into an organ grinder monkey crankey out the same old tune.

    Ain’t gonna happen. Just look at his approach – he apparently believes that he is the first person to ever discuss these issues with the unenlightened “wingnuts.” A liberal Prometheus, armed with FACTS.

    Yawn. We’ve hashed this crap through for the past 4 years with hundreds of libs. In that entire time I had one decent discussion. One. And in that discussion, the lib was reduced to claiming that the Iraqi trade delegation to Niger was looking for cotton. But it was good up until that point.

  48. geoff said

    Justin doesn’t seem so prolific anymore.

    He just wanted attention for his FACTS.

  49. thats why I called him a retard geoff, I just decided to give him a second chance.

    I was wrong.

  50. So did you agree with the point in the post where she was called an” attention whore?”

    She said it, I just EAGERLY agreed, and gave it context.

  51. So the hard left are attention whores?

    *stares into space*

    *murmurs*

    yes, yes that fits.

  52. pattyann said

    Yes, Lisa, I do like that one, too.

  53. Congrats on gaining your new trolls Moral Authority. I guess that is the sign that your blog has finally arrived.

    “Your mentors are poor excuses for Americans such as shrub”

    Why do you even respond to this silly kind of thing? The hypocrisy is almost delicious watching him twist and kvetch about “personal attacks” while he has the temerity to call a sitting president “shrub”- with all its implications.

  54. Justin said

    Geoff you stated that I wanted attention for MY facts. Wicked you stated that you wanted me to stand..do I have this correct?

    First these are not my facts. They are the actual facts. George W. Bush has lied to every citizen of this nation, he has lied to the U.N., he has lied other world leaders, and he has lied on the floor of the congress.

    Here are just some of those lies..that historians will call facts:

    Here are the Bush Administration’s statements about WMDs and Iraq that turned out to be untrue.

    “Facing clear evidence of peril, we cannot wait for the final proof — the smoking gun — that could come in the form of a mushroom cloud.”
    ~ George W. Bush, Cincinnati, Ohio, 2002-10-07, on evidence for Iraq’s non-existent nukes.

    “The danger is clear: using chemical, biological or, one day, nuclear weapons, obtained with the help of Iraq, the terrorists could fulfill their stated ambitions and kill thousands or hundreds of thousands of innocent people in our country, or any other.”
    ~ George W. Bush, 2003-03-17

    “Satellite photographs reveal that Iraq is rebuilding facilities at sites that have been part of its nuclear program in the past. Iraq has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes and other equipment needed for gas centrifuges, which are used to enrich uranium for nuclear weapons.”
    ~ George W. Bush, Cincinnati, Ohio, 2002-10-07. These tubes turned out to be nothing more threatening than the tubing used to construct playground equipment.

    “We’ve also discovered through intelligence that Iraq has a growing fleet of manned and unmanned aerial vehicles that could be used to disperse chemical or biological weapons across broad areas. We’re concerned that Iraq is exploring ways of using these UAVS for missions targeting the United States.”
    ~ George W. Bush, Cincinnati, Ohio, 2002-10-07, on Iraq’s non-existent drones capable of launching an attack on the USA.

    “We found the weapons of mass destruction, we found biological laboratories.”
    ~ George W. Bush, Interview of the President by TVP, Poland, 2003-05-29, If he found them, what happened to them?

    “Right now, Iraq is expanding and improving facilities that were used for the production of biological weapons.”
    ~ George W. Bush, Speech to UN General Assembly, 2002-09-12

    “Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent.”
    ~ George W. Bush, State of the Union Address, 2003-01-28

    “The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa.”
    ~ George W. Bush, State of the Union Address, 2003-01-28. The documents supporting this turned were crudely forged.

    “The United Nations concluded in 1999 that Saddam Hussein had biological weapons sufficient to produce over 25,000 liters of anthrax — enough doses to kill several million people. He hasn’t accounted for that material. He’s given no evidence that he has destroyed it.”
    ~ George W. Bush, State of the Union Address, 2003-01-28 This was a bit of dissembling, using out-of-date information to imply Saddam was still armed even though inspectors found no traces. What would constitute evidence something was destroyed other than by allowing inspectors to see for themselves it no longer exists, which Saddam did.

    “The United Nations concluded that Saddam Hussein had materials sufficient to produce more than 38,000 liters of botulinum toxin — enough to subject millions of people to death by respiratory failure. He hadn’t accounted for that material. He’s given no evidence that he has destroyed it.”
    ~ George W. Bush, State of the Union Address, 2003-01-28 This was a bit of dissembling, using out-of-date information to imply Saddam was still armed even though inspectors found no traces.

    “We have sources that tell us that Saddam Hussein recently authorized Iraqi field commanders to use chemical weapons — the very weapons the dictator tells us he does not have.”
    ~ George W. Bush, Radio address, 2003-02-08

    “Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised.”
    ~ George W. Bush, Address to the nation, 2003-03-17

    Now it was and has been proven that all of this were flat out lies. He attacked a nation and as a direct result thousands upon thousands of people have died.

  55. Justin said

    “while he has the temerity to call a sitting president “shrub”- with all its implications.”

    I would try to explain that for you but you would just do a neo-con twist on. So let me say that in light of the fact that Bush attacked a nation under false pretenses, while allowing Bin Laden to roam free and doing nothing to protect this nation..he deserves what he gets. This disgrace of a President wishes to tear down what thousands of brave men and woman died and fought their asses off for hundreds of years.

    …George W. Bush had his chance and he done nothing. Jimmy Carter is a saint as compared to shrub.

    There is a vast difference in me calling Bush shrub and the personal attacks you people pull on those that have the freaking nerve to stand up to you.

  56. geoff said

    I told you WMD would be next. So predictable. Like a moth to a bright light, Justin dredges up the long-discredited “lying” arguments.

    Sorry, Justin, you’re 3 years too late to the table with this. And from the looks of your quotes, you’re a complete novice at it, as well. Imagine, someone in these enlightened times still trying to sell the “16 words” hokum.

    Either you should know better, or you do and you are a liar.

  57. geoff said

    Oh, just re-read your comment.

    You’re a liar.

  58. Justin said

    Geoff it is not that hard to understand. How I am a liar? I gave you word for word just a few of the statements that Bush gave as his main reasoning for attacking Iraq. I did not say them..he did. So how in the hell am I a liar? There is a shit load more factual points out there. Look them up, since you assume I am a liar.

    He said that Bin Laden was in the pocket, so to say, of Hussain. We now know, and his own people have said, that, that was not true. He said there was WMD’s FACTS show that was very much not true. He said we would be in Iraq until either A) they asked us to leave OR B) they had their own sovereign government set up. Well their government is up so it is now time for us to et our men and woman the hell out and allow others to deal with this issue. We are spending an estimated 1.6 billion dollars per week in Iraq. If shrub had not have attacked Iraq we could have used that money to kick the living hell out of Bin Ladan and those that shelter him. We could have used that money also to do the job it takes to better protect this nation.

    “long-discredited “lying” arguments”

    Long discredited? Bull shit. They have been proven by the facts! For example: there are factually NO WMD’s in Iraq. SOD Rumsfeld even admitted this in many, many press convo’s. What do you fear the facts? I think that you fear them because they show what a failure your hero is. I was not and I am not simply making arguments here Geoff. I am stating proof to back what I claim. Now state yours. No name calling or your normal personal attacks…proof. BTW content from Fox does not count as proof.

  59. mesablue said

    Hey guys, Justin writes bad erotica/porn in his spare time — he can’t be all bad.

    http://sirrion.wordpress.com/2007/05/25/sex-story-adult-erotica-2/

  60. geoff said

    I am stating proof to back what I claim. Now state yours.

    Forget it, Justin. I’ve told you already that I’ve had these discussions non-stop for 3 years. Why would I have the least bit of interest in having another one with you? Especially when all it will accomplish is to help you hijack a thread (a sign of rudeness and self-absorption) and massage your ego with a little attention.

    But here’s freebie for you: the Butler report unequivocally stated that what you said about the “16 words” is absolutely untrue – the British intelligence estimates were NOT based on the forged documents. They even said that Bush’s statement was “well-founded.” Hey – it’s a FACT! So you either haven’t read the Butler report, which makes you ridiculously uninformed, or you have, and are simply lying.

    No name calling or your normal personal attacks…proof.

    And now you’re trying to take all the fun out of it. Be assured that the only reason that I’ve even bothered commenting in this thread is that I’m bored enough to entertain myself by mocking you. But now I’ll just sit back and watch you mock yourself with your own comments.

    Naw, I’m lying. I don’t care enough to even do that.

  61. geoff said

    Did I get spam filtered?

  62. geoff said

    Oops – guess not. Oh, and Justin – look at the date on the Fact Check article. July 26, 2004. That argument was over almost 3 years ago. You might try to catch up.

  63. Joe said

    I thought everyone knew that in porn you always finish the story with a money shot, I hate sad endings.

  64. Justin said

    Geoff…

    “Forget it, Justin. I’ve told you already that I’ve had these discussions non-stop for 3 years. Why would I have the least bit of interest in having another one with you? Especially when all it will accomplish is to help you hijack a thread (a sign of rudeness and self-absorption) and massage your ego with a little attention.”

    I have found that this is the best thing that ring wing neo-cons can do..avoid the matter at hand. The same ole shit..is that not what you folks tried to peg on me. You repeat the same shit. I have been having these discussions for 3 years.. blah blah blah. Fact: You do not wish to debate it because you fear that you just may be wrong. Giving shrubs rating with America a majority of America agrees with me..at least in part if not entirely.

    “But here’s freebie for you: the Butler report unequivocally stated that what you said about the “16 words” is absolutely untrue – the British intelligence estimates were NOT based on the forged documents. They even said that Bush’s statement was “well-founded.” Hey – it’s a FACT! So you either haven’t read the Butler report, which makes you ridiculously uninformed, or you have, and are simply lying.”

    LMAO do some research on the disgraceful Butler report and get back to me. Tony Blair is shrubs bitch boy. He is a coward and a disgrace to his nation. Te only good thing about Tony Blair is that he is leaving. Tell me Geoff is the Butler report the only thing you can pull out of your ass pal? I have given fact for fact to back up what I have said. I just did not say it I backed it up.

    Now as to “hijacking” this thread. I hate to break it to you that this so called moral authority blog was on “latest post” and I simply clicked the link. That brought me to this gem of a blog and I choose to comment. I choose to comment because I can. if the owner of this blog wishes to not have my comments on his/her blog then he/she is free to delete them. I could care less. In the mean time I will comment as I see fit. See how that works?

    “Naw, I’m lying. I don’t care enough to even do that.”

    LMAO yea right whatever

  65. Justin said

    mesa spouted:

    “Hey guys, Justin writes bad erotica/porn in his spare time — he can’t be all bad.”

    ROFL…it must not have been that bad mesa you took time to go to my site and read it eh.

  66. Justin said

    Geoff tried to be funny with:

    “You might try to catch up.”

    You might try to back your claims up eh.

  67. Obviously it was that bad Justin. Mesa hasn’t been posting much recently.

    Clearly he’s scarred.

  68. Justin?

    You bore us, we heard it, it’s either completely false or so hyperbolic it isn’t worthy of response per item, or in total. You have nothing new.

    If you ever try to speak with your own mouth, then we might discuss, but you aren’t interested in that. You just rehash the same old crap that we have already discarded as hyperbolic crap that is beneath notice.

    I don’t know you justin, I haven’t interacted with you much, but if you disagree? do so with your own voice, rather than parroting the same’ole same’ole, cuz we’ve all heard it.

    Now if you feel something we can accept that, cuz YOU feel it even if we disagree, but we won’t call you retarded.

    In summary, everything you have submitted is retarded, lazy, and disingenuous, and you know it, so we don’t waiste our time.

    FIN!

    Comment all you please you get nothing more from me, I gave you my advice.

  69. geoff said

    LMAO do some research on the disgraceful Butler report and get back to me.

    I see how it works. You pull a quote out of the SotU that was retracted by the President, and then claim that it shows that he was lying. That’s a FACT! But when confronted by the authoritative evaluation of British intelligence, you slander the source with no evidence. Where are your FACTS! now? I gave you a FACT! which all responsible sources agree trumps your rejected SotU quote, I give you the FactCheck link that sums up how errant your argument is, and you just wave your hands and pretend they’re meaningless.

    What a tool.

    Then there’s this delightful and completely unFACT!tual rant: Tony Blair is shrubs bitch boy.e is a coward and a disgrace to his nation. Te only good thing about Tony Blair is that he is leaving.

    Any support for any of that? Are you going to show us how that discredits the Butler report? No?

    What a piece of crap argument. And what does this even mean?

    “Tell me Geoff is the Butler report the only thing you can pull out of your ass pal?”

    So if I quote an authoritative text which directly refutes your point and which has never been contested, that is “pulling it out of my ass?” Pathetic.

    I’m done with you Justin – take the last word. Anybody reading this thread will just shake their heads at how glibly you trample the truth.

  70. Criminy geoff were we typing that at the same time?

  71. Justin said

    “In summary, everything you have submitted is retarded, lazy, and disingenuous, and you know it, so we don’t waiste our time.”

    I do hope that you will take your advise. You know I came to this wee little blog in hopes of a good debate but it has been proven to me that you all have no desire to debate with facts. You say I rehash old stuff and all this shit. Kind of like Bush said there was wmd’s and hell fire they are not there. lmao.

    and btw wicked while I am at it. The few things I have brought up hear on this very blog has been said by not just me.. but experts world wide. You freaking wish to speak to me about talking with my own mouth.. well get the neo con shrub finger out of your ass and do the same. George W. Bush will go down in history as being a no action president. he will earn his place in the books as being the man that placed us in the middle of a cluster fuck called Iraq and allowed the man that really attacked this nation run fucking free.

  72. The few things I have brought up hear on this very blog has been said by not just me

    exactly, thats why it’s boring and it’s not a debate. find our own voice.

  73. Summary,

    Justins opinions are parroted from

    Joe wilson
    Joe biden
    Teddy kennedy
    Dick durben
    George galloway
    and
    Jimmy carter.

    See? All discredited, all wrong, and all that you’ve said justin. You’ve never said anything that you yourself believe, unless, you ONLY believe the words of others. Odd how us bushbots are so. . . frighteningly independant in our opinion!

    “must defy master,” is clearly the first of the laws that bush programmed into us.

    Justin? go bang your hockey helmeted head against the plexiglass window of your short bus on the way to your school where you are taught about the benefits of janitorial work.

  74. Justin said

    LMAO..let me post it again for you. BTW Einsteins I posted just some of the content that is out there. There is a shit load more. Just go and search..can you handle it baby? Can you actually think for yourselves or do you need shrub to write write you a fake intell report to explain it?

    I can see here that it is damn near impossible to have a debate based on facts here. Tis be all good brotha in a little under 600 days shrub can go back to crawford and and take his place as a disgrace..that is the legacy he will be left with.

  75. Justin said

    “See? All discredited, all wrong, and all that you’ve said justin. You’ve never said anything that you yourself believe, unless, you ONLY believe the words of others. Odd how us bushbots are so. . . frighteningly independant in our opinion!”

    awe…now see you said you were done with me there wicked.

    Let me repeat this again for you in bold:


    What I have said has been backed up by facts…has been also agreed on by thousands of people. world leaders and members of both parties. even members of the gop agree.

  76. Justin said

    I figured that you neo-cons needed some reading material. it has been said here that I repeat the same thing said some years ago. Some have even tried to, in an around about way, have lied. The following piece is given to show that I am not the only one that has said these things. So for your education brothas:

    INVADING IRAQ WOULD VIOLATE U.S. AND INTERNATIONAL LAW

    Professor Marjorie Cohn
    Thomas Jefferson School of Law
    JURIST Contributing Editor

    Despite opposition by many prominent Republicans, Dick Cheney and George W. Bush are mounting an intensive public relations campaign to justify their pre-ordained invasion of Iraq. A preemptive strike against Iraq would
    violate the Constitution and the United Nations Charter.

    Article I, section 8 of the Constitution empowers Congress, not the president, to debate and decide to declare war on another country. The War Powers Resolution provides that the “constitutional powers of the President as Commander-in-Chief to introduce United States Armed Forces into hostilities, or into situations where imminent involvement in hostilities is clearly indicated by the circumstances, are exercised only pursuant to (1) a declaration of war, (2) specific statutory authorization, or (3) a national emergency created by attack upon the United States, its territories, or possessions or its armed forces.”

    Congress has not declared war on Iraq, no statute authorizes an invasion and Iraq has not attacked the United States, its territories, possessions or armed forces. President Bush’s lawyers have concluded that he needs no new approval from Congress. They cite a 1991 Congressional resolution authorizing the use of force in the Persian Gulf, and the September 14, 2001 Congressional resolution authorizing the use of force against those responsible for the Sept. 11 attacks.

    These two resolutions do not provide a basis to circumvent Congressional approval for attacking Iraq. The January 12, 1991 Persian Gulf Resolution authorized the use of force pursuant to U.N. Security Council Resolution 678, which was directed at ensuring the withdrawal of Iraq from Kuwait. That license ended on April 6, 1991, when Iraq formalized a cease-fire and notified the Security Council. The September 14, 2001 resolution authorized the use of armed force “against those responsible for the recent [Sept. 11] attacks against the United States.” There is no evidence that Iraq was responsible for the Sept. 11 attacks.

    A preemptive invasion of Iraq would also violate the United Nations Charter, which is a treaty and part of the supreme law of the United States under Article 6, clause 2 of the Constitution. It requires the United States
    to settle all disputes by peaceful means and not use military force in the absence of an armed attack. The U.N. Charter empowers only the Security Council to authorize the use of force, unless a member state is acting in
    individual or collective self-defense. Iraq has not attacked this country, or any other country in the past 11 years. None of Iraq’s neighbors have appealed to the Security Council to protect them from an imminent attack by
    Iraq, because they do not feel threatened.

    Cheney and Bush cite the possibility that Iraq is developing weapons of mass destruction as the rationale for a preemptive strike. Iraq is in violation of Security Council Resolution 687, which requires full cooperation with U.N. weapons inspectors. But this issue involves the Iraqi government and the United Nations. The Security Council did not specify any enforcement mechanisms in that or subsequent resolutions. Only the Security
    Council is empowered to take “further steps as may be required for the implementation of the resolution.” Although the Security Council warned Iraq, in Resolution 1154, of the “severest consequences” if it continued
    its refusal to comply, the Council declared that only it had the authority to “ensure implementation of this resolution and peace and security in the area.”

    Articles 41 and 42 of the U.N. Charter declare that no member state has the right to enforce any resolution with armed force unless the Security Council decides there has been a material breach of it resolution, and
    determines that all nonmilitary means of enforcement have been exhausted. Then, the Council must specifically authorize the use of military force, as it did in November 1990 with Resolution 678, in response to Iraq’s
    occupation of Kuwait in violation of Security Council resolutions passed the previous August. The Security Council has not authorized any use of force for subsequent violations involving Iraq.

    Moreover, the claim by Cheney and Bush that Iraq has developed weapons of mass destruction is spurious. Scott Ritter, who spent seven years in Iraq with the UNSCOM weapons inspection teams, has said, “There is absolutely no reason to believe that Iraq could have meaningfully reconstituted any element of its [weapons of mass destruction] capabilities.” Ritter, a twelve-year Marine Corps veteran who served under General Norman Schwarzkopf in the Gulf War, maintains that the Iraqis never succeeded in developing their chemical and biological agents to enable them to be sprayed over a large area. It is undisputed that Iraq has not developed nuclear capabilities.

    There is no legal justification for a preemptive attack on Iraq. Only Congress can authorize the use of United States armed forces, and only the Security Council can sanction the use of force by a U.N. member state. Both
    are necessary; neither has been forthcoming.

    Marjorie Cohn, an associate professor at Thomas Jefferson School of Law in San Diego, is on the national executive committee of the National Lawyers Guild. http://www.lawyersagainstthewar.org/articles/cohn2.html

  77. Justin said

    I can supply more to back up what I say..just let me know brotha’s. 😉

  78. Justin said

    Hey since you neo-cons say you no longer will reply to me..and I say I will keep posting because I can. I thought I would give you something else to read. You took the time to mention The Butler Report in defense of your puppet position. I thought you’d like this 😉

    These pages contains news items since the start of the war and will be maintained as a diary of events. It will demonstrate that the war against Iraq was unjust and questions US/UK motives for the pre-emptive attack on Iraq.

    The links used in these pages are from respected media sources that make their archives freely available. The majority are from the BBC, Guardian, Observer, Independent and Times. A few are taken from the Daily Mirror, and a few from Al Jazeera to obtain an Arab perspective.

    The US/UK ‘claimed’ legal justification for war on the basis that Iraq possessed Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD) and was a direct and immediate threat. It is clear that this was not the case. As of October 2003 no WMD have been located, and even if they are present it is clear that Iraq was in no position to be a threat. Who is accountable for the deaths of thousands of people in the Iraq war, Mr Blair, Mr Bush? Not only did the US/UK initiate an unjust war, it was also clearly an illegal war initiated by two irresponsible leaders who have misled the world. Events since the war suggest that the motives for this war were control of the region and it’s oil supplies. And as for human rights, how have the Iraqi prisoners been treated by the US and UK……

    27th February
    New charge undermines Blair claims on Iraq war – fresh evidence has come to light suggesting that Tony Blair committed himself to war in Iraq nearly a year before the American and British assault in March 2003.

    23rd February
    Revealed: the rush to war – the attorney general, Lord Goldsmith, warned less than two weeks before the invasion of Iraq that military action could be ruled illegal. Elizabeth Wilmshurst, deputy legal adviser at the Foreign Office, described the planned invasion of Iraq as a “crime of aggression”.

    12th January
    US gives up search for Iraq WMD – Intelligence officials have confirmed the US has stopped searching for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. The existence of WMD had been the stated reason in Washington and London for going to war with Iraq.

    8th December
    CIA adds to gloom over Iraq – the CIA station chief in Baghdad has sent a pessimistic end-of-tour assessment about Iraq, according to the New York Times.

    16th November
    More US war crimes – first the torture of prisoners, now the murder of unarmed and wounded people.

    15th November
    An apology – at least half of America is sorry……

    29th October
    100,000 Iraqi civilians dead, says study in Lancet – the first scientific study on the number of civilians killed (murdered?) in Iraq reveals that100,000 Iraqi civilians – half of them women and children – have died in Iraq since the invasion, mostly as a result of airstrikes by coalition forces.

    17th October
    Aide quits over ‘illegal’ war – a senior official who helped draw up Tony Blair’s dossier on weapons of mass destruction has quit in disgust over what he regards as the illegal war in Iraq. Ross is understood to believe the evidence was “unambiguous” that Iraq posed little or no threat so the legal case for war was flawed. He and other officials are believed to have raised their concerns with ministers. Ross said yesterday: “I am happy to confirm that I resigned because of the war, but I cannot comment further.”

    16th October
    Why is war-torn Iraq giving $190,000 to Toys R Us? – next week, something will happen that will unmask the upside-down morality of the invasion and occupation of Iraq. On October 21, Iraq will pay $200m in war reparations to some of the richest countries and corporations in the world.

    15th October
    Poll reveals world anger at Bush – George Bush has squandered a wealth of sympathy around the world towards America since September 11 with public opinion in 10 leading countries – including some of its closest allies – growing more hostile to the United States while he has been in office.

    15th October
    The making of the terror myth – since September 11 Britain has been warned of the ‘inevitability’ of catastrophic terrorist attack. But has the danger been exaggerated? In the UK the Home Office’s own statistics for arrests and convictions of suspected terrorists since September 11 2001 state that of the 664 people detained up to the end of last month, only 17 have been found guilty. Of these, the majority were Irish Republicans, Sikh militants or members of other groups with no connection to Islamist terrorism. Nobody has been convicted who is a proven member of al-Qaida.

    13th October
    Weapons of Mass Deceipt – Jack Straw yesterday finally admitted the claim Iraq could deploy weapons of mass destruction in 45 minutes was not justified.

    10th October
    Blair ‘clinging to straws’ – Tony Blair and George Bush are “clinging to straws” to justify the war in Iraq, Hans Blix has said. He also said the report was further evidence “that the reality on the ground was totally different from the virtual reality that had been spun”.

    9th October
    Paul Bigley: “Mr. Blair has blood on his hands” – after hearing news of his brother’s death, Paul Bigley quit the meeting, and instead he sent a short message to be read by Carmel Brown of Stop The War.The message said: “Please, please stop the war and prevent any other lives being lost. It is illegal. It has to stop. “Mr Blair has blood on his hands.” He added: “This war is illegal and it must stop. The United Nations declared this war illegal. There are no weapons of mass destruction, which were taken as a foundation for this war.”

    7th October
    Iraq had no WMD, inspectors conclude – Saddam Hussein destroyed his last weapons of mass destruction more than a decade ago and his capacity to build new ones had been dwindling for years by the time of the Iraq invasion, according to a comprehensive US report released yesterday. Iraq kept up WMD pretence ‘to deter Iran’ and was not a threat to Europe or the USA.

    5th October
    Dear Mike, Iraq sucks – civilian contractors are fleecing taxpayers; US troops don’t have proper equipment; and supposedly liberated Iraqis hate them. After the release of Fahrenheit 9/11, Michael Moore received a flood of letters and emails from disillusioned and angry American soldiers serving in Iraq.

    18th September
    Blair ‘was warned of Iraq chaos’ – Tony Blair was warned there could be post-war problems a year before the Iraq invasion. Documents further show that the Prime Minister was advised that he would have to “wrong foot” Saddam Hussein into giving the allies an excuse for war, and that British officials believed that President George W Bush merely wanted to complete his father’s “unfinished business” in a “grudge match” against Saddam.

    18th September
    Iraq had no WMD: the final verdict – a draft of the Iraq Survey Group’s final report circulating in Washington found no sign of the alleged illegal stockpiles that the US and Britain presented as the justification for going to war, nor did it find any evidence of efforts to reconstitute Iraq’s nuclear weapons programme.

    16th September
    IIraq war illegal, says Annan – the United Nations Secretary-General Kofi Annan has told the BBC the US-led invasion of Iraq was an illegal act that contravened the UN charter.

    16th September
    IColonel accuses Allies over Iraq -a British Army officer who won praise for a rousing speech to troops in Iraq has accused the US and UK of failing to plan for after the war.

    10th September
    New blow to Blair over Iraq – Tony Blair will be confronted with a fresh challenge over Iraq within the next two weeks when the long-awaited final report of the Iraq Survey Group concludes there were no weapons of mass destruction in the country at the time of the US-UK invasion.

    18th July
    Butler Report independent and accurate? – Downing Street secured vital changes to the Butler Report before its publication, watering down an explicit criticism of Tony Blair and the way he made the case for war in the House of Commons.

    18th July
    Attorney General warned Blair on legality of war – Tony Blair was warned before the Iraq war by the Attorney General, Lord Goldsmith, that a UN court could rule Britain’s invasion unlawful.

    16th July
    Blair ‘in dark’ over Iraq report – Tony Blair claims that he did not know a key piece of Iraq intelligence had been discredited when he gave evidence to last year’s Hutton inquiry. What else did he not know? Is this acceptable from the man that took us to war?

    15th July
    European reaction to Butler report – Blair’s credibility lies in tatters… his stubborn insistence that the Iraq war was right is merely an act of desperation ( Berliner Zeitung). Even those who don’t call into question the prime minister’s honesty will at least have to think about his ability to lead the country (Sueddeutsche Zeitung). Whatever the final details of the report on the CIA and MI6, the total failure of British intelligence is obvious (Nepszabadsag).

    15th July
    Blair faces renewed war questions – Tony Blair faces renewed pressure over the war with Iraq after Lord Butler’s revelations about the “thinness” of the intelligence used to justify it.

    15th July
    Headlines from UK papers – Tony Blair oversold the case for war and failed to reveal how little British intelligence knew about Saddam Hussein’s weapons of mass destruction, the Butler report concludes (Telegraph). Iraq intelligence was flawed and misused. The devil for Blair remains in the detail with evidence stretched to ‘outer limits’ (Guardian). So why did our sons have to die? (Daily Mirror)

    The intelligence: flawed
    The dossier: dodgy
    The 45-minute claim: wrong
    Dr Brian Jones: vindicated
    Iraq’s link to al-Qa’ida: unproven
    The public: misled
    The case for war: exaggerated
    And who was to blame? No one (Independent)

    15th July
    Butler Report – represents a damning indictment of the way Britain was taken to war on Iraq. The intelligence on which the action was based was flawed and it was then presented to the public by security chiefs and the government without accompanying reservations. In particular, the infamous claim that Saddam Hussein could deploy weapons of mass destruction within 45 minutes should not have been included in the document in the way it was. Unfortunately the Butler Report could not identify who was responsible as the clear remit was to look at the quality of the intelligence, NOT the way it was used and who was responsible for the way it was ‘sold’ to the public. Thus the important questions are still unanswered. Tony Blair has said he accepts responsibility for the failings highlighted in the report, but is not prepared to resign honorably. Dr Hans Blix, the UN’s former chief weapons inspector, said the government had “hyped” Iraq’s weapons capability in its September 2002 dossier. He told BBC’s Hardtalk programme: “I think it was a spin that was not acceptable. “They put exclamation marks where there had been question marks and I think that is hyping, a spin, that leads the public to the wrong conclusions.”

    11th July
    Now Blair must face an inquiry – ‘the fundamental question posed by the Iraq war is about judgment – specifically the Prime Minister’s. He made the decisions that took us to war. He overrode the concerns of all of us who believed the case for war had not been made. He chose to follow George Bush at any cost. We need a full explanation.’

    10th July
    Blair’s Iraq evidence ‘confusing’ – two former intelligence officers have cast doubts over Tony Blair’s use of evidence in the run-up to war in Iraq.

    10th July
    Personal Comment – why is it that Tony Blair and his Government did not question the evidence presented to them when those of us against war did? I have yet to see the convincing evidence that took us to war? The majority of this country did not want to go to war yet we were assured by Tony Blair that Iraq was a real and imminent threat. Will Tony Blair take responsibility and resign for his mistakes and those of his intelligence services? The BBC director general was forced to resign following failures within the BBC. Greg Dyke’s failures did not have such serious consequences, and did not lead to the death of thousands of people. Was Humberside police chief David Westwood not suspended under severe pressure from this Government because of failings within his force concerning the Soham murders?
    Come election time I will certainly take into account how such poor judgement has led to an illegal and immoral war with the death of over 10,000 Iraqis and 1,000 coalition members. This war has increased the global threat of terrorism, damaged the reputation of Britain, and will cost the tax payers of this country in excess of 5 billion pounds.

    10th July
    Iraq war report damns CIA – the American Senate has delivered a damning report on the case for war against Iraq, savaging the CIA and implicitly blaming British intelligence. It concluded that assessments of the threat of Saddam Hussein’s weapons of mass destruction were wrong, unreasonable and largely unsubstantiated. “We went into Iraq based on false claims,” said Senator Jay Rockefeller, one of the authors of yesterday’s report on the debacle, said. He added that he now regretted his vote in October 2002 to support the war. But did the Government manipulate intelligence for its own political ends? We know the answer, but the truth is unlikely to be told…….There will be many quiet retirements with generous pensions………

    5th July
    Legality of Iraq occupation ‘flawed’ – the senior Foreign Office lawyer who resigned after ministers ignored her advice that the war in Iraq was illegal has issued a damning legal critique of the occupation, claiming that the alleged abuse of prisoners “could amount to war crimes”.

    30th June
    Archbishops slam Iraq jail abuse – Dr Rowan Williams and Dr David Hope’s letter was written on behalf of the 114 Anglican bishops, they say the abuse of Iraqi detainees has been “deeply damaging” and the apparent double standards “diminish the credibility of western governments”.

    16th June
    Probe rules out Iraq-9/11 links – the commission investigating the 11 September 2001 attacks on the US has found no “credible evidence” that Iraq helped al-Qaeda carry them out. The report does not make pleasant reading for the Bush Administration.

    10th June
    Iraq abuse ‘came from US policy’ – A human rights group says the torture and mistreatment of Iraqi prisoners by US soldiers was due to a decision to circumvent international law.

    6th June
    The emperor has no clothes – by senator Robert Byrd. An old article I just found……

    5th June
    Bush takes a tongue-lashing from the Pope over Iraq – the Pope yesterday subjected George Bush to a very public, relentlessly critical assessment of the US administration’s performance in Iraq, attacking “deplorable” abuses of prisoners and calling for an international solution to the country’s crisis. In addition, tens of thousands of people have been marching in Rome in a protest against the visit by US President George W Bush.

    1st June
    The lying game – an A-Z of the Iraq war and its aftermath, focusing on misrepresentation, manipulation, and mistakes.

    26th May
    UK accused of major rights abuses – the UK has carried out “serious human rights violations” as part of its war on terror, Amnesty International says. Hundreds of civilians had been killed and thousands injured by coalition bombing during the war in Iraq, the report said. Thousands of people had been arrested and detained without charge or trial in Iraq, and “torture and ill-treatment by coalition forces were widespread”, it said. The report also stated that the US-led “war on terror” is behind a surge of human rights abuses around the world, according to a report by Amnesty International. The organisation said America’s offensive against global terrorism was “bankrupt of vision” and had “made the world a more dangerous place”.

    21st May
    ‘US soldiers started to shoot us, one by one’ – survivors describe wedding massacre as generals refuse to apologise. When Iraqis are blown apart in Baghdad by a car bomb, or Israelis in Haifa by a suicide bomber, these are instantly and correctly labelled as terrorist attacks. However when American helicopters or Israeli tanks cause death to innocent civilians on a similar scale, there is always an alternative version on offer. This comes amidst the row over the conduct of US personnel in Iraq which intensified yesterday after an American news channel showed gruesome new photographs of military police officers posing with the battered body of a dead Iraqi prisoner. Inmates were raped, ridden like animals, and forced to eat pork

    20th May
    What the war was really about – many in the US are worried about pulling out of Iraq, traditional conservatives who see American interests in the Middle East as focused on a regular supply of oil are anxious because it has pulled its troops out of one big producer, Saudi Arabia, without establishing a sustainable military presence in another, Iraq.
    Administration critics, as well as a growing number of Republican moderates, are arguing that to salvage the situation in Iraq the administration will have to jettison many of its other policy goals and political ambitions. For example, it will have to give up all hope of establishing permanent military bases in Iraq, securing advantages for US firms, and staying out of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

    16th May
    Daily Mirror photos were a hoax – but it is clear that acts of cruelty were committed by a number of British troops. The Daily Mirror admitted its mistake and sacked its editor. Will Mr Blair and Mr Bush apologise for their mistakes/lies. We were taken to war on the false premise that weapons of mass destruction would be found in Iraq. Bogus dossiers were produced and lies told to the UN to convince the world it was legally right to invade a sovereign country.

    11th May
    Senior Britons were in the dark – the Red Cross said last night it could not understand how senior British figures did not know troops were accused of abusing Iraqi civilians when British diplomats and military commanders had been given a number of detailed warnings over the past 13 months. The Red Cross report condemned physical and psychological abuse employed by US troops at Abu Ghraib prison as “standard operating procedure”.

    11th May
    UK troops ‘shot harmless Iraqis’ – UK troops have killed Iraqi civilians including an eight-year-old girl when they were under no apparent threat, Amnesty International has claimed. In a further revelation, British troops in Iraq were acting illegally by “hooding” prisoners, the Government was forced to admit yesterday.

    10th May
    Abuse claims known a year ago – the government was told of allegations UK troops abused Iraqi prisoners a year ago according to Amnesty International. Meanwhile, as more torture pictures are released, Iraq’s first human rights minister launched a blistering attack yesterday on America’s chief administrator in Iraq, Paul Bremer, saying that he had warned him repeatedly last year that US soldiers were abusing Iraqi detainees.

    9th May
    Cover-up – the UK government has confirmed it received a Red Cross report on alleged abuses by UK troops on Iraqi prisoners in February. This is despite its claims of knowing nothing about allegations of abuse of Iraqi prisoners by British troops. The Red Cross has been documenting abuse that was not the ‘exception’ but was close to the norm – abuse that was ‘tantamount’ to a policy of torture, and tolerated by coalition forces.

    7th May
    The Arab papers respond to Bush’s appearances on Arabic television as more evidence of abuse emerges – “No expression of ‘deep disgust’ by President George Bush or apology by the US military will ever change or even minimise the hatred felt in Iraq and the Arab world towards the Americans and their coalition. Mr Bush said that the way the US military treated Iraqis is ‘not the way we do things in America’. This may be true about the US when it deals with Americans. But since the US administration has one set of standards for Americans and Israel and another for Iraqis and Arabs, respect for human rights somehow turns into a joke…

    7th May
    Red Cross saw ‘widespread abuse’ – new details have emerged from a Red Cross report into incidences of alleged Iraqi prisoner abuse by US soldiers. The Red Cross describes the abuse as widespread and, in some cases, tantamount to torture. The Red Cross says it repeatedly warned Washington about the mistreatment.

    3rd May
    Further reports of the US torture of Iraqi prisoners – “Saddam Hussein may have oppressed us but he was better than the Americans. They are garbage.” “The Americans said they would bring us freedom. Is this what they mean?” The coalition has already found its first justification for invasion – finding weapons of mass destruction – to be hollow. Its second justification – humanitarian moral necessity – is rapidly going the same way.

  79. mesablue said

    Justin,

    Am I going to have to buy more server space just to deal with your break from reality?

    We’ve all seen those points. Over and over.

    And you are more than welcome here, but please don’t spam the place.

    If you really want to feel the pain of the long swords — take me on.

    Your logic is flawed beyond the point of dissonance, there are arguements trying to fight their own way out of the false set of facts that you try to set forth.

    How’s that for lib speak?

    Anyway.

    Speak for yourself. We might like you.

    You’ve quoted a whole lot of crap that doesn’t have anything to do with why I should spend more than one second trying to communicate with you.

    It’s not about who wins, Justin.

    We all have to be right. We. Through who we elect and through our own actions. More importantly — how we end up living together.

    You picked a fight.

    There are no neo-cons here.

    I’ll toss them before I toss you.

    We’re hard core conservatives. No neo about it.

    Come back anytime.

  80. Justin said

    mesa thanks for the invite I just might 😉

  81. Justin said

    Mesa I have a question for you. You said:

    “Your logic is flawed beyond the point of dissonance, there are arguements trying to fight their own way out of the false set of facts that you try to set forth.”

    The things I have posted here, I have posted to back up what I have said. They were not said for any other reason but to back up what I claimed in what I thought may just be a good debate of thoughts. If the things I have posted have been checked and verified by experts all over the world how can they possibly be false as you have claimed above?

    With all due respect to you I am very intrigued as to why you would say they are false when they are backed up with facts.

    Also you said:
    “You picked a fight.”

    With all the sincerity that I can give to you it was not my plan to pick a “fight.” My plan and my desire was to have a good ole debate based on the facts. What bothers me is that anytime one tries to have a debate with a conservative, the conservative, almost always goes the route of attack. Answer me this, why in the hell should one try when they are always pegged as a retard or some other personal attack. I could have went that route I could have started attacking by saying some really nasty and mean things and for the most part I did not attack. Your buddies did. You and the others have said my facts are false..how are they false and why are they false?

    You act as if I have not given thought to the view point of those that support shrub. Hell I have. There are some parts of BOTH side that I agree with. Could you not agree that there is a chance that all these people, the experts, could very well be right? I have heard, not per se here, from conservatives that have said one should not question any siting President of the this nation. I say to hell with that.. What condition do you honestly think this nation would be in if no one ever questioned or held in judgment those that we elect? Here is an example of what I mean. I think that Clinton was one of the best Presidents we have ever had. But I think he punked out like a little bitch over gays in the military. Some people do not think gays should serve this nation. I say bull shit. if you are quailed to do the job you should be allowed to do that job. Some conservations act as if gays will try to jump in a fox ole to fuck their fellow solider. That is total and outright bull shit. I am not even gay but I support their right to serve their nation, openly.

    I have said on this forum more then once. I am NOT a Democrat..I am a moderate independent. I vote for the person and not the party. I think that, for example, President Regan was also one of the best Presidents we ever had. I voted for him. I am fully prepared to give your point of view consideration..the question is will you give mine the same consideration?

  82. Justin said

    I would like to note that I did come and I did reply to your post mesa, as you can see above. I did play by your rules and honor your request.

    No answer is an answer. That is the exact thing that liberals and moderates nation wide have been saying about you people for many years.

    Honest efforts get no where when they give you nothing to make personal attacks at I guess….

  83. Justin?

    You aren’t superior, you are clearly nothing more than a parrot, I like you somewhat in the gore post, but here? You are nothing but a nuisance.

    Don’t outthink Mesa, he’s been at a high level, I’ve been at a low, and others have been at extreme levels.

    Just cuz we and they believe doesn’t mean we are stupid, anymore than you are stupid for believing Global warming.

    Stand down civvie.

  84. Justin said

    Wicked do you always read that much into someones post? Stand back and chill a bit pal. That isn’t my intention of my post. Now if you would stop being so defensive about the subject you would see that 😉

  85. Justin?

    If you can offer to Page downs worth of idiotic talking points? I can analyze your comment 🙂

  86. geoff said

    If you can offer to Page downs worth of idiotic talking points? I can analyze your comment

    You’re a patient man, WP.

    Point of amusement: note that Justin’s cut & paste (at #78 – he really ought to credit the source and learn to blockquote) quotes the Butler report. Apparently he’s fine with using it when it suits his purpose, but very critical of it (for no apparent reason) when it doesn’t.

  87. Justin said

    If you’d get your head out of your freaking ass pal for just one moment and read very slowly..

    I love having a heated debate with wicked as he seems to be a good guy all in all. But you, Geoff, try to boost your ego by downing and stepping on everyone that dare disagree with you, even when you may just be in the wrong. You have no more desire to have a real debate with anyone that disagrees with you then shrub has a desire to be the compassionate conservative that he claim to be.

    All in all Geoff it is in my humble opinion that you’re the lowest of low. I refuse to debate with someone who is of such little character. Now I will keep coming back to site because hey mesa did invite me to. But unless you are willing to extend the same respect to me that I extend to you I will simply treat you with same amount of respect that you have given to me.

    Point of Amusement: Geoff really needs to understand that given time we can all learn from each other. In addition to that it is important to note that Geoff should check his facts before he go fourth in his desire to trash other people.

  88. geoff said

    But unless you are willing to extend the same respect to me that I extend to you I will simply treat you with same amount of respect that you have given to me.

    Perhaps you should start with actual citations, accurate renditions of the facts, and actual arguments instead of lists of events or opinions.

    If you want to earn respect, show me that the Butler Report was incorrect in its vindication of Bush’s SotU statement. Don’t tell me that the Butler Report is “disgraceful” (which is nonsense): give me links to actual sources that say exactly why the Butler Report’s conclusion on that point was unjustified. I’ve never seen such a source, so I don’t believe that it can be done.

    But go ahead, surprise me. Show me that you’re not just a foaming-at-the-mouth run-of-the-mill troll. Because right now, all the evidence is on my side.

  89. Justin said

    Geoff you say that I am a troll..that you are wrong. I am an adult that found this site on my dashboard, who fucking pays for the right to go to any damn site I damn well see fit to. That being said…..

    “actual citations, accurate renditions of the facts, and actual arguments”

    I have done this, the problem that we have is you’re to much of an ass to see it. You operate on the bases that you can attack without knowledge pal. You have yet to back up anything YOU have claimed. The shoe fits both ways. I have given examples of all that I have given opinion to. You denounce it because you fear that just perhaps I may be right.

    “Don’t tell me that the Butler Report is “disgraceful” (which is nonsense): give me links to actual sources that say exactly why the Butler Report’s conclusion on that point was unjustified.”

    We already know you’re a smart ass..so do your homework pal. I am not playing this mind fuck with you. Anything I post here at this point..you will just brand it as being “wrong.” The things I have given opinion on is based on fact. They are things that not just I have said..they have been said by thousands of people around the fucking world. I have been told I parrot here and that I do not. I simply share my opinion and I back it up with examples of proof.

    As I write this reply it is being reported all over the world that Gen. Pace, Rummies yes man, has resigned as chairman of the joint chiefs. He resigned why? Because he couldn’t handle the fact that he would have to answer for his NON actions.

  90. You are rehashing old shit justin, all of which has been cleared up for rational thinking people.

    Thats why you are a troll, you stuff the thread with crap, and think you win, all the while you are avoiding an honest direct discussion, which means you lose.

    I don’t know if you are a troll yet, but in this, and the gore thread, you are a rehashed idiot spouting the same crap we heard 4 years ago, and has been discredited 3 years 11 months and 30 days ago.

  91. geoff said

    Geoff you say that I am a troll..that you are wrong. I am an adult that found this site on my dashboard, who fucking pays for the right to go to any damn site I damn well see fit to.

    Troll. Do you even know what it is? Do you have the slightest inkling of the mores of blogging etiquette? Naw, it’s all about Justin getting to go where he wants and say what he wants. What an egotistical rude hick.

    As to the rest of your, “I’m not gonna play” blither – it’s exactly what I predicted. Just as I predicted that you’d go straight to the “Bush lied” claptrap. When asked to provide an actual, substantive fact that supports your argument, you fold.

    And of course, you use the old “moving target” troll tactic. Faced with a losing hand, you change the argument to keep from getting pinned down. When the SotU argument starts collapsing, you switch to General Pace’s resignation. I used to wonder if it was an attention span problem or if trolls did it on purpose, but having seen it so many times, it’s obviously deliberate.

    Told ya, WP – just another foaming-at-the-mouth run-of-the-mill troll.

  92. Justin said

    “discredited 3 years 11 months and 30 days ago.”

    Discredited by who shrub puppets? Give me a fucking break wicked. THOUSANDS of people around the fucking world have given proof that Bush was and is full of shit. Now members of own damn party are saying the same things. oh yea all of those people with their proof..are all wrong? is that what the hell you’re claiming now? bull fucking shit

  93. Justin said

    “As to the rest of your, “I’m not gonna play” blither – it’s exactly what I predicted. Just as I predicted that you’d go straight to the “Bush lied” claptrap. When asked to provide an actual, substantive fact that supports your argument, you fold.”

    ok…it is very clear to me that being nice does not get the job done with a mindless fuck such as yourself…

    Geoff you are a mindless fuck, you know that. I am not the only person saying this stuff. Even members of his own fucking party are now agreeing with people like me. You keep saying all this smack to me, yet you fail to prove your own bullshit. I have not folded I have proved what I have said. if you would get your head out of your ass and stop being the little bitch that you are…do your fucking homework and stop being a shrub bitch boy you will find the fucking facts…because it does not seem you can prove anything you claim.

    …and yea shrub is a fucking liar. he is a total and outright disgrace to this nation and the office for which he occupies.

    “When the SotU argument starts collapsing, you switch to General Pace’s resignation.”

    This just proves that you know very little. Learn to read dip shit. I said at the end of my post:

    “As I write this reply it is being reported all over the world that Gen. Pace, Rummies yes man, has resigned as chairman of the joint chiefs. He resigned why? Because he couldn’t handle the fact that he would have to answer for his NON actions.”

    That was said at the end of my comment..as in a closing note to my comment. Bottom line you’re like all the other bush bitch boys you cannot and will not put your fucking money where your mouth is.

  94. Justin said

    “just another foaming-at-the-mouth run-of-the-mill troll.”

    That you are Geoff. Geoff if you can read..I am curious have you read the entire 9-11 report?

  95. Yeah geoff,

    Troll, sorry I doubted you.

  96. The “being nice” thing was the finale, it was grand and pathetic. Like the Yankee’s in the post season, or paris at her sentencing.

    It’s just so unfair that the left doesn’t win, just so UN FRIGGEN FAIR!!!

    It took me this long goeff, I gave justin a chance, and he ran right into the wall.

  97. Justin said

    ..before I go let me say this you shrub puppets.

    When you debate someone and you claim they are lying be sure of a few things:

    1. When they give proof of what they say..take notice that they are backing themselves up.
    2. When you make claims be man enough to back up your claims. Both you of you have failed to back up anything you have claimed.

    You are the very thing that shrub wants in a follower a mindless fuck!

  98. geoff said

    It took me this long goeff, I gave justin a chance, and he ran right into the wall.

    They’re all the same. It’s remarkable how similar they are. But Justin was worse than most, not even understanding the basics of argumentation.

    But, no harm. He was unmasked quickly, even before the flecks of spittle started flying.

    Y’know, sometimes I even feel bad – I wonder, “what if they really wanted an honest debate? Isn’t it my duty to educate them?” But then I read over the string of comments and realize that they just want attention and a place to let their venom fly.

    Amusing, but they do make a mess of a perfectly nice thread.

  99. Yeahp geoff, if only they could turn that passion to thought.

    I’m a doof, but I TRY to discuss and to learn, a shame that so men on the left don’t.

  100. Bell said

    An interesting discussion is worth comment. I think that you should publish more about
    this subject, it might not be a taboo subject but usually people do not talk
    about these topics. To the next! Many thanks!!

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